Thursday, September 01, 2005
Our Fallen World
My heart and mind are breaking over Hurricane Katrina. It has been called "the greatest natural disaster in American history," and I wouldn't disagree.
I have been watching a lot of CNN, to be honest. The coverage of the devastation, the looting, the desperation... it is all incredibly sad and alarming as the bad news seems to grow by the hour.
Several of the questions posed by reporters and others are pretty provocative, but not very relevant, for example:
(1) Why didn't we do more to prepare for this? At some point, that will be a valid question. But how in the world do you prepare for a level 5 hurricane? Everyone was told to evacuate, but not forced to actually do it. Unfortunately, this was not just "another hurricane" that people can ride out.
(2) Did God do this, as some sort of punishment on New Orleans? I've had this question in several e-mail. We live in a fallen world (Romans 8) with tragedies, disasters, and pain as a result of the curse of sin (Genesis 3). Gone are the Old Testament days when God sends judgment and tells us where it comes from and why it happened. For now, God allows creation to "groans" and suffers - sometimes dramatically - longing for God's eternal rescue and pointing people to faith in Christ.
Ultimately, our response should be that God grieves, God comforts, and God responds. We must pray for His response, and we must also seek to BE His response, as His church.
I do not think it is enough for the Christian community to say - along with all of the TV anchormen and women - that "our prayers are with you." We must give, we must serve, we must encourage. We must be proof that a loving God cares about the needs and devastation experienced in our own country.
I am grateful for places like The Red Cross and others, who are providing opportunities for people to give. If you give, please make sure that you are giving to a credible effort where funds go straight to relief efforts. Unfortunately, there have already been some bad schemes out to take people's money.
Unbelievable - unless this is truly a fallen world.
I have been watching a lot of CNN, to be honest. The coverage of the devastation, the looting, the desperation... it is all incredibly sad and alarming as the bad news seems to grow by the hour.
Several of the questions posed by reporters and others are pretty provocative, but not very relevant, for example:
(1) Why didn't we do more to prepare for this? At some point, that will be a valid question. But how in the world do you prepare for a level 5 hurricane? Everyone was told to evacuate, but not forced to actually do it. Unfortunately, this was not just "another hurricane" that people can ride out.
(2) Did God do this, as some sort of punishment on New Orleans? I've had this question in several e-mail. We live in a fallen world (Romans 8) with tragedies, disasters, and pain as a result of the curse of sin (Genesis 3). Gone are the Old Testament days when God sends judgment and tells us where it comes from and why it happened. For now, God allows creation to "groans" and suffers - sometimes dramatically - longing for God's eternal rescue and pointing people to faith in Christ.
Ultimately, our response should be that God grieves, God comforts, and God responds. We must pray for His response, and we must also seek to BE His response, as His church.
I do not think it is enough for the Christian community to say - along with all of the TV anchormen and women - that "our prayers are with you." We must give, we must serve, we must encourage. We must be proof that a loving God cares about the needs and devastation experienced in our own country.
I am grateful for places like The Red Cross and others, who are providing opportunities for people to give. If you give, please make sure that you are giving to a credible effort where funds go straight to relief efforts. Unfortunately, there have already been some bad schemes out to take people's money.
Unbelievable - unless this is truly a fallen world.
Comments:
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i know you're not a deist, but it sounds a little that way. if God didn't send the storm, who did? if someone else wanted it, controlled it and caused it...and God didn't want it to happen, then who is he who can twart the plan of God.
i know you preserve the sovereignty of God, so i know you don't intend to make God sound helpless. i also know your post is borne out of a breaking heart for those who are suffering!
check out piper's article about katrina. i think he's a premier pastor/theologian on the sovereignty of God and compassion for the lost.
love you bro.
i know you preserve the sovereignty of God, so i know you don't intend to make God sound helpless. i also know your post is borne out of a breaking heart for those who are suffering!
check out piper's article about katrina. i think he's a premier pastor/theologian on the sovereignty of God and compassion for the lost.
love you bro.
Danny, good thoughts.
Is it really one extreme or the other?
Either God is a disconnected Deist who doesn't cause anything today, or His Sovereignty means that he controls and causes everything?
I think there is a lot of middle ground here.
I preserve the Sovereignty of God. But I believe that, in God's Sovereignty, He has made the choice to let a lot of things happen.
Things like human choice.
Things like accidents.
Things like a groaning creation. He cursed it in Genesis 3, but it seems to groan without God's "help."
Your first paragraph makes it sound like either God or some rival to God had to cause the hurricane and flooding. Why?
I think God created a world where - because of the fallen creation - storms happen.
So, God is responsible for creating a world where storms happen and people die.
But to say that God specifically caused Hurricane Katrina is - I think - a huge mistake.
We really don't know.
We have to agree that, while God "mourns with those who mourn," he sovereignly - and OFTEN - chooses NOT to react, NOT to rescue, and NOT to stop the storm.
At the least, I think we have to be willing to live somewhere in the middle of the extremes.
Is it really one extreme or the other?
Either God is a disconnected Deist who doesn't cause anything today, or His Sovereignty means that he controls and causes everything?
I think there is a lot of middle ground here.
I preserve the Sovereignty of God. But I believe that, in God's Sovereignty, He has made the choice to let a lot of things happen.
Things like human choice.
Things like accidents.
Things like a groaning creation. He cursed it in Genesis 3, but it seems to groan without God's "help."
Your first paragraph makes it sound like either God or some rival to God had to cause the hurricane and flooding. Why?
I think God created a world where - because of the fallen creation - storms happen.
So, God is responsible for creating a world where storms happen and people die.
But to say that God specifically caused Hurricane Katrina is - I think - a huge mistake.
We really don't know.
We have to agree that, while God "mourns with those who mourn," he sovereignly - and OFTEN - chooses NOT to react, NOT to rescue, and NOT to stop the storm.
At the least, I think we have to be willing to live somewhere in the middle of the extremes.
i just thought to say "He wan't involved" is going too far over that extreme.
why does creation groan?
because it is now under the curse.
why is it cursed?
because man sinned?
not completely. because God cursed it when man sinned because of His wrath and His righteousness. check Romans 1. the wrath of God is revealed in creation because man has rebelled against God.
i mentioned this in blog too. it's not that the people New Orleans sinned more than me and you and deserved this more than me and you. But we must be Biblically honest to say that not a single innocent person died in the flood. Therefore, God is justified when His wrath is poured out (either directly or by cursing creation clear back in Genesis 3).
The Old Testament is also filled with passages that talk about the Lord controling the weather. Nowhere in Scripture is anyone given credit other than God for the events in the atmosphere. I don't believe that just because we live in the New Testament era, that now means He no longer controls the weather.
Did you read the Piper link? What did you think?
why does creation groan?
because it is now under the curse.
why is it cursed?
because man sinned?
not completely. because God cursed it when man sinned because of His wrath and His righteousness. check Romans 1. the wrath of God is revealed in creation because man has rebelled against God.
i mentioned this in blog too. it's not that the people New Orleans sinned more than me and you and deserved this more than me and you. But we must be Biblically honest to say that not a single innocent person died in the flood. Therefore, God is justified when His wrath is poured out (either directly or by cursing creation clear back in Genesis 3).
The Old Testament is also filled with passages that talk about the Lord controling the weather. Nowhere in Scripture is anyone given credit other than God for the events in the atmosphere. I don't believe that just because we live in the New Testament era, that now means He no longer controls the weather.
Did you read the Piper link? What did you think?
Of course all have sinned and nobody is good. I don't think I said anything to the contrary. God is always justified in what He does - of course. Neither of these is the issue at hand. What is at hand, however, is this - how should we connect God with Hurricane Katrina, specifically?
In the Old Testament - and the New... when it talks about God instances of controlling the weather, it literally tells us that He is doing so.
I think there are instances in the Bible where it does not say that "someone" is "controlling" the weather, necessarily.
God can choose when and where He wants to specifically intervene. Not only does God not have to tell us, but in the "closed canon" era (now that Scripture is done being written), He has not told us.
Therefore, I'd rather not speculate about it, but rather say that God could have specifically caused Hurricane Katrina and the subsequent flooding, but we cannot know that for sure.
I prefer not to speak "for certain" on something when God has not spoken "for certain" on it. I will speak for certain that all are sinners and God has the right to judge. I will speak for certain that God loves "the world" and that includes people who suffer in these disasters. I will speak for certain that God can use any event to bring about good purposes and draw people toward him.
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In the Old Testament - and the New... when it talks about God instances of controlling the weather, it literally tells us that He is doing so.
I think there are instances in the Bible where it does not say that "someone" is "controlling" the weather, necessarily.
God can choose when and where He wants to specifically intervene. Not only does God not have to tell us, but in the "closed canon" era (now that Scripture is done being written), He has not told us.
Therefore, I'd rather not speculate about it, but rather say that God could have specifically caused Hurricane Katrina and the subsequent flooding, but we cannot know that for sure.
I prefer not to speak "for certain" on something when God has not spoken "for certain" on it. I will speak for certain that all are sinners and God has the right to judge. I will speak for certain that God loves "the world" and that includes people who suffer in these disasters. I will speak for certain that God can use any event to bring about good purposes and draw people toward him.
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